Who Is The Real Trump? Taxes, Economy & The New Socialism | Stephen Moore | POLITICS | Rubin Report

Who Is The Real Trump? Taxes, Economy & The New Socialism | Stephen Moore | POLITICS | Rubin Report

– I say in the book, when
I walked in that room, I knew 15 of the
other 16 Republicans who were running for president. I mean, I knew Marco
Rubio, I know John Kasich, I knew Jeb Bush, I
had met them all. The only one I had never
met was Donald Trump, so I was kinda curious. And I say in the book,
when I walked in that room, I did not like him, I
did not like his persona, I thought he was
kind of a blowhard. I thought his run for presidency was a publicity stunt, frankly. And we spent about an hour
and 20 minutes with him, and I walked out with
stars in my eyes. (intense music) – I’m Dave Rubin, and
this the “Rubin Report.” Quick reminder to
subscribe and make sure that you get notified
of our videos. Why not, right? Okay, joining me today
is an author, economist, and former advisor
to President Trump. Steve Moore, welcome
to the “Rubin Report.” – Hi, Dave, thanks
for having me. – I am glad to have you here. We’re gonna have to
talk somewhat quick because you’re in a
major time crunch here. – It’s an honor
to be on the show. – I’m thrilled to have you here. This is gonna be a little
quicker than my average show, so I usually do a little–
– Rapid fire, all right. – I do a little
backstory usually. I try to find out
where people are from and all sorts of stuff. We’re gonna do that next
time I sit down with you. Let’s go right into economics. As a “Wall Street Journal”
guy and a longtime economist, and you studied at George
Mason, and all of this stuff, how would you say your… what would you say your
economic principles are? Let’s just do 101,
Moore economics. – Well, I believe in
freedom and free markets. I believe that as
Thomas Jefferson said, that government which
least governs best, and get the government
for the most part out of the way of the economy,
and it’ll do just fine. That’s not to say we
shouldn’t have regulation. We should certainly
have smart… We want clean air and clean
water and safe workplaces. We wanna a tax system
that raises the revenue the government needs, but in a
way that is non-confiscatory. Are you listening,
Elizabeth Warren? – (laughs) We’ll talk
about her in a little bit. – And it doesn’t
distort the economy. So I’ve been a flat tax
guy for all my life. I love the idea, let’s just
have a really low rate, everybody pays it. You make 10 times
more money than I do, you pay 10 times more tax,
and not 50 times more tax, and get rid of all the
loopholes in the tax system. So I believe the free
enterprise system is the goose that
lays the golden eggs. – All right, so I’m basically
with you on all of that, but let’s do the flat
tax for a second. So I would be
basically for something like 15% for everybody. Would you do something
to help the people that are at the lowest–
– Yes. – So a certain amount of
people would pay nothing. – Yeah, so like in the
standard flat tax plan, you said 15%, I’d love that,
but most plans are about 18%, and then you basically
say for a family of four, roughly your first say
$30,000 earned is tax free, and then above that
amount, you pay a tax. So people below the poverty line are not paying any
federal income tax. I think most people regard
that as fair and equitable and very pro-growth and
would love to see it. The reason it doesn’t happen is not even because
liberals oppose it, it’s the special interest
groups in Washington. Do you think they
wanna a flat tax? – The lobbyists make money buying and selling
favors in the tax code. If you have a flat tax, what
do they have to sell and buy? – No more favors. – If you really wanna drain
the swamp, go to a flat tax. – Would you do anything on
the really high side of that? (laughing) – So right now, you
mentioned Elizabeth Warren. – We’d be good at 19%. – Is there something
you would do, even if it didn’t work sort
of economically in your mind, just to kinda throw the
progressives a bone? – You know why I don’t like it? I get it, I get asked
that question a lot. You know why I don’t like that? ‘Cause you say, “Well,
why don’t we just have 20% “for the really rich?” And then Elizabeth Warren
says, “What about 25? “Why not 30, why not…” We had tax rates at one
point in this country at 91%. So I don’t like that
idea, ’cause I think
it perverts the… I love the idea everybody
pays the same rate. No, the idea, oh, we’re
just gonna have a surcharge on the Bill Gates and the
Warren Buffets of the world, they will pay their tax. When they earn their
money, they will pay it. And by the way, those
are people who employ in some cases hundreds
of thousands of workers. They pay tax, so I wanna retain
the virtue and simplicity of a one-rate system. – Right, those guys are also
always for raising taxes, and yet they don’t
voluntarily pay more. – Yeah, isn’t that interesting? – What do you make of the
mind of someone like that? – Well, there’s a group called
the Patriotic Millionaires. There’s something like 100
millionaires and billionaires who have signed something
saying, “We wanna pay more tax.” I call them the
hypocritical millionaires because there’s nothing
to prevent somebody… At the bottom line
of your tax form is if you wanna pay more
money into the Treasury, you can write a check,
and none of them do that. So my feeling is that
they want other people to pay more tax, but they don’t
wanna pay more themselves. And then they say, “Well, but
the tax system’s involuntary,” and I’m like, wait a minute, you know people
voluntarily wanna serve, people sign up for the military. Those are patriotic people,
they care about our country, and they’re willing to give potentially their
life for our country. But these quote, “patriotic
millionaires” won’t pay more tax themselves, but
they want other people to pay more tax. – Does it become one
of those odd things where it’s like the CEO
of Walmart or something will publicly say that he’s
for a $15 minimum wage, where he knows actually it
won’t ultimately hurt him, but it’ll hurt–
– That’s a great point. – All the small businesses that
won’t be able to afford it. He’ll be able to afford it.
– Oh, yeah. That’s why a lot of the
regulations in Washington that liberals want,
they are able to team up with the big companies, because the big companies
can absorb the cost of requiring a company to
pay healthcare benefits or education benefits or
raise the minimum wage, so it’s a way actually of
strengthening the big guys and strangling the small guys who are trying to compete
with the big guys. The small businesses are the
ones who get hurt the most by those kinds of regulations. – Right, it’s interesting
that you mentioned in relation to tax that even
if you threw somebody a bone, it’s never enough kind of, which reminds me of the
$15 minimum wage thing, where Rashida Tliab said,
“Well, why not $20?” And then it’s like,
well, Bernie or Warren or the rest of them, they have
nothing to really stand on to say why it should
be 15 and not 20, ’cause once you artificially
put these numbers in– – By the way, I’m
for the highest wages Americans can possibly get. – So how do you ensure that then without doing too much
government involvement? – Well, you don’t have to
have the government do it. First of all, one
of the principles, you asked me about
principles of economics, one good principle is you
never want the government setting prices or setting wages. That’s supposed to be done by
the free enterprise system, the law of supply and demand. And when you have the
government come in and set… I’ll give you an
example in a sec. You are living here
in Los Angeles. In a lotta cities,
you have rent control to try to make housing more
affordable for poor people. Look, we all want
people to have shelter and a roof over their head. But it turns out, this
is an perfect example of the law of
unintended consequences. It turns out when you
actually impose rent control, you actually reduce the
amount of affordable housing and you actually have more
people homeless, not less. And New York City found that, and yet liberals seem to
never understand that, and it’s the same thing with, what were you asking
me about, the– – Well, the minimum wage.
– Yeah, the minimum wage. – It’s like it’s not
hinged to reality sort of, so once someone says
it should be 15, well, then why not 20,
and then why not 25? – Yeah, exactly, and
so what tends to happen when you raise the minimum
wage is you actually, the people who tend
to get hurt the most are the people with
the least skill, because you essentially
price them outta the market. I always tell the story,
I have two teenage sons, I love them to death, but I’d
never pay them $15 an hour, right?
– Right. – I mean, they don’t have
the training and skills to warrant a $15 a hour wage. Why not, especially
for young people, let them work for $7 or $8
an hour and gain the skills. I remember very well, by
the way, my first job. I think most people
listening to this, watching the show, remember. Do you remember the
first job you ever had where you got a paycheck?
– I do. – What was that?
– I was a paperboy. – A paperboy, okay.
– I was a paperboy. – I was working in
a small warehouse in Northbrook, Illinois. But you learn a lot
with your first job, how to show up on time, how
to be nice to be your boss, how to learn some skills, so you learn that whether
you’re delivering newspapers or whether you’re
working in a factory. So I don’t like that about it. I like letting the wages rise, and that’s happened
under Trump, by the way. We’ve gotten really nice
wage gains under Trump through the free
enterprise system in creating a very
tight labor market. Workers have a lot of
bargaining power right now. – So you advised
Trump on the tax cuts a couple of years ago. Talk to me just a little
bit about what’s that like, when you’re sitting in
a room with this guy? Are his guiding principles
sort of economically what you’ve kinda laid out? He’s obviously a capitalist. – Do you know Trump? – I’ve never met him personally. – So he’s a really good guy. Believe it or not, I
always say half-jokingly that most politicians are
wonderful people in public and jerks in private. Trump can be a jerk in public, but he is a wonderful
person in private. I like him a lot. He’s interesting, he’s charming, he’s attentive to
what you’re saying. He looks at you
straight in the eye and he wants to know,
and he’ll combat you. I like that, he’ll
joust with you if he doesn’t agree
with your position, which he’ll have four or
five people in the room and they’ll argue, and that’s
what good CEO should do, not just surround
themselves with yes men, but people who will
argue out the point. – So when you guys sat
down and he’s going, “I wanna cut taxes and this is
one of the things I promised. “Now help me pull
this thing together.” What’s that like?
– I’ll give you one example. This tells you a lot
about the tax bill, but it also tells you
about Donald Trump. So I remember we went into
Trump, this was Larry Kudlow, and now Larry’s now
the chief economist, and we said, “Hey,” we
showed him this chart that had the U.S. tax rate
on our businesses was 40% and the rest of the world
was on average about 20%. And we said, “You know,
this is a problem for us.” As Larry called it,
it’s a 20% headstart for all the countries
we’re competing with ’cause they’ve got a lower
penalty that they face. As a result of that,
companies were leaving the United States and
they were going to Ireland or they were going to Canada
or they were going to Mexico. This was called inversions, it’s where companies
were giving up their American citizenship
to move somewhere else. So anyway, we said to Trump, “We think you should have a
20% rate in your tax plan.” And I’ll never forget,
he sat back and he said, “No, I’m not gonna do that.” We said, “Well, why?” He said, “I want 15%.” And what was so
interesting about that was that from that moment
until we passed the bill in late December of 2017,
he always insisted on 15%, whether it’s a meeting
with Mitch McConnell or Paul Ryan or any public
declaration, 15, 15, 15. And I’ll never forget,
we were waiting for the final vote
in the Senate, ’cause we needed to get 50 votes
in the Senate to pass this, we were nervous about
whether we could this. Remember, on Obamacare,
we came up with 49 votes, one vote short, so we didn’t
wanna come up with 49 again. So we’re very nervous,
we’re waiting for McConnell to come back from his
come-to-Jesus moment when they had
their final meeting in the Senate Republican caucus
to see if they had 50 votes. And I remember he walks in, he goes right up to the
president, and he said, “Mr. President, I’m so
sorry, I failed you. “I know you wanted
that 15% tax rate. “I made every argument
I possibly could, “and I failed you,
Mr. President. “What can I say? “I just couldn’t
convince my colleagues. “I said I couldn’t
get you that 15%.” He said, “Would you take 20%.” Well, Trump went, “Yeah,
I’ll take that in a minute.” I really believe the
really interesting thing about that story is
I always thank God, “Thank you, God,
that Donald Trump “didn’t listen to Larry and I.” He does understand
the art of the deal. I think he wanted 20% all along, but he understood if
you wanna end up at 20%, that’s not your
opening bid, right? So he started at 15,
and I guarantee you, I guarantee you if
he had started at 20% like Larry and I had,
we would have ended up at about 27 or 28%. It’s because he started at 15, the negotiated position was 20. Well, we ended up actually at
21%, but that’s pretty good. – Do you think basically that is his secret
sauce to everything? I mean, we could even take this outside of the
world of economics, just that negotiating
like that is basically, that is his greatest
skill, period. – Well, you know the
name of his book, right? – “The Art of the Deal.”
– “The Art of the Deal.” He’s a good negotiator, he is. I’ve seen him many
times in person and he knows how to negotiate. That’s what’s made him
successful in business. Look, he’s made
mistakes as president. I’m not an apologist for Trump. I like where we are
with the economy, but yeah, I think this
is one of his assets, he’s a very good negotiator. – So where are we exactly
right now with the economy? – Good, it’s good. – Depending on
who you listen to, it seems like we’re
all over the place. – Well, first of
all, let me say this. If I had told you
three years ago that after say three
years of Trump, not quite three, but we’re good, we would have the lowest
unemployment rate in 50 years, the lowest inflation
rate in 50 years, the lowest interest
rates in 50 years, and the biggest wage
gains in 30 years, that’s a pretty
darn good economy, and that’s what
we have right now. We have 7.1 million surplus
jobs in the United States. Think about that. That’s never happened before
in the history of our country. 7.1 million unfilled jobs, that’s larger than
the entire population of the state of Indiana. That’s how many surplus jobs. What that means is workers
have bargaining power. It goes back to what
we were saying before. So you don’t like your
job working for Joe’s, you can go down the
street and work for Susan and she’s gonna give
you a higher offer. We just had negotiations
between the UAW and GM. The UAW, it looks like
they’ve gotten pretty much what they wanted in
these negotiations, why? Because it’s not like UAW
can go find other workers, there’s a shortage of them. So I think it’s been a
positive thing for workers. Let me summarize, if you
are an American worker and you are looking for a job, and you have some
kind of useful skill, this is the best labor market
in any of our lifetimes. It’s really good. Can it continue? I think it can. – So you mentioned
regulation before, how do you figure out
where the moments are that you have to use
the touch of government, because as you said, you are
for some level of regulation? – The way I like to put it is, look, we all believe in, not
all of us, but most of us– (laughing) Be careful.
– In sound regulation that makes the economy
run and stops cheaters and things like that. – I have a lot of Libertarians
that watch this show though. – There’s some who
want no regulation. – Just by saying
the word regulation, a lot of them–
– I have friends who don’t even believe
you should have to drive on the right side of the road. (laughing) Good luck. My point is that I
believe regulations should be guardrails
on the road, so to keep you on the road. The left believes that
a lot of the regulations should be roadblocks to
prevent people from… We want our
businesses to succeed, but we wanna them to stay
on the straight and narrow. Too many times, I saw this
in the Obama administration, too many times the regulations were just meant to bring these
companies to an abrupt stop, and I think that’s
the difference. We want regulation that makes
sense, that’s cost effective, and that achieves its mission
without disrupting our economy in a way that will destroy jobs. – Can you give me an
example of a regulation that Trump has cut? There was the original, wasn’t
there that idea at one point that for every new
regulation he was gonna pass, he was gonna cut something,
like 70 regulations? – Two, he said, “I want every
new one, we get rid of two,” and actually so far
for every new one, we’ve kinda removed 20. So he’s been a big deregulator. – So can you give me an example
of where something like that that he’s cut has actually
helped the economy? – Well, the best example
is in the energy area. Barack Obama and his team
hated the fossil fuel industry. They hated shale, oil, and gas. They hated the coal producers. So they passed
regulations that were, by the way, the law says that
regulations should be passed in a way where they’re
achievable for an industry. In other words, they
shouldn’t be designed to bankrupt a company.
– To take out an industry. – But in the area of coal,
the intention was precisely to just put the coal
producers outta business, and it hurt our own gas. Now we’ve got a situation
where we’re producing more oil and gas and
coal than ever before, we’re producing
more nuclear power, and that’s created for
the first time in our, again, in your or my lifetime,
we’re actually producing more oil and gas
than we’re consuming. I mean, that’s a pretty
cool thing to think about. We’re no longer susceptible
to Arab oil embargoes or the Russian influence. You saw what happened
when the Iranians bombed the oil fields
in Saudi Arabia. That was, what, about
three or four weeks ago. If that had happened
before the shale revolution that we have going on,
the price of gasoline… Well, what are you paying
here in California? You pay a lot for gas. – I don’t even know what it is. I have an electric car now, so I’m not so sure.
– It’s like 4 or $5 a gallon. But on the East
Coast, where I live, you pay maybe $3 a gallon. The price of gas would
probably have gone to about $6 a gallon if it
hadn’t been for the fact that the United States
is actually now producing a lot of oil and gas ourselves. – So do you think that the
primary role of the government basically is to make sure that
the economy is running right? Is that really the first thing that the government has to do?
– It’s to protect our life and our liberty, and
the reason we have laws is to make sure that I
don’t violate your rights and you don’t violate my rights. I’m kind of old-fashioned, I
believe if I’m doing something that doesn’t interfere with
your rights to life and liberty, that you should
be able to do it. I don’t like laws that
are intended, for example, to protect me from myself. I think adults should be
able to do pretty much… I don’t like drugs,
I don’t like tobacco, I don’t smoke, I don’t do drugs. But if you wanna do drugs, I
think you’re stupid to do them. – No comment, no comment. (laughing) But I don’t think the
government should be involved in those kind of decisions. – What else should
we know about Trump as someone that has
spent some time with him? Not even the negotiating part, I mean, to give us
a little insight into just the human part. But it’s a little hard
to just figure it out through the media. – One of the things that
impressed me the most when I wrote the
book, “Trumponomics” with my friend, Art Laffer, the first few chapters that
I recommend people read are just if they’re interested
in how Trump operates is to read those, because
we really talk about how Trump just as a
person, what’s he like. One of the things that
first impressed me when we were called
by Corey Lewandowski was running the
campaign back then, and will go down in
the history books for getting Trump through
that Republican nomination, Trump called us in something
like January of 2016 and said, “Mr. Trump
would like to meet you “and Larry Kudlow
at Trump Tower.” So I was curious. The Trump movement was
just sort of getting going at that point, but you could
sense something was going on, and I wanted to see
what it was all about. I say in the book, when
I walked in that room, I knew 15 of the
other 16 Republicans that were running for president. I knew Marco Rubio,
I know John Kasich, I knew Jeb Bush, I
had met them all. The only one I had never
met was Donald Trump, so I was kinda curious. And I say in the book,
when I walked in that room, I did not like him, I
did not like his persona, I thought he was
kind of a blowhard. I thought his run for presidency was a publicity stunt, frankly. And we spent about an hour
and 20 minutes with him, and I walked out with
stars in my eyes. He’s an incredibly charming
and charismatic person, and he’s always personally
been very good to me. He doesn’t throw people under
the bus that are loyal to him, and I’ve tried to be loyal to
him, and it goes both ways. When I went through the
fed reserve nomination and just got pulverized by all
these accusations against me, I remember I would
call Trump up, call the president and say, “Mr. President, if this
is a problem for you, “that I hate black
people and I hate midgets “and I hate Jews, and
all these allegations,” and I said, “Look,
if this is a problem, “I’m happy to step down.” – You do realize
that that’s the clip that people are
gonna put online. (laughing) – Yeah, I know, but let
me be very clear, folks, I don’t hate Jews,
I don’t hate blacks, I don’t hate midgets. I’m saying that’s
the kind of thing they were saying about me. But anyway, I said,
“Mr. President, “if that’s a problem for you, “I don’t wanna embarrass you.” He said, he was, “Get back
there, keep fighting.” And one thing I do
respect about Trump, and look, a lot of the
things he does and says, I don’t like at all. I wish he would stop
tweeting, for example. But what I went through was
for about three or four weeks of just getting
pulverized in the media. Finally, my wife said,
“If you stay in this, “I’m gonna divorce you.”
– Wow. (laughing) – And so I just said, okay,
I can’t take this anymore. Trump has taken 1,000
times what I took, and day after day
after day after day, and yet he never lets… It just wore me down,
but he doesn’t get down. – How do you think he does that? – He’s like a superhero (laughs)
or something in the sense. It’s like he’s got a coat
of armor or something that protects him from
these insults and stuff. He’s always called a racist, and that’s the
other thing I found. I couldn’t believe how
many blacks and minorities he had working for him,
and they loved him. So he’s not a perfect
person by any means, he’s got a lot of faults,
but I think he’s a… The one thing you always
ask me, what drives him? And it really is, how do we
make America great again, and how do we make sure
that the economy is working for middle class
blue-collar workers? ‘Cause those are the
people who elected Trump. Those were the people
in Erie, Pennsylvania, and Lansing, Michigan,
and Oshkosh, Wisconsin, and Charleston, West Virginia, who frankly were pissed
off at both parties, Democrats and Republicans. They didn’t like the Bush years, they didn’t like
the Obama years. And Trump knows the people
who brought him to this dance. – Do you think there’s any risk in having a sorta
pure businessman as
the chief executive? – I think it’s a
breath of fresh air. I think that’s
the reason he won. I think people were
sick of politicians. Remember, what was his closing
argument in the election? Do you remember the campaign? – Well, there were
a couple of things. One of them is what
do you have to lose? (laughing) – Yeah, that one was good. – That was one of the big ones. – The other one was,
drain the swamp. And I gotta tell you, that
really appealed to people around the country
because Washington, this is one of my
little pet peeves and Trump tapped into this, Washington is getting rich at
the expense of the rest of us. Three of the five wealthiest
counties in the United States are in or around Washington, did you know that?
– Yeah. – Three of the five,
how did we do that? I’ve lived in
Washington for 30 years. We don’t produce anything. All we produce is laws,
learners, politicians, rules, regulations,
and we’re getting rich at the expense of the
rest of the country. And you know what? The American people
finally caught on. It’s like, wait a minute, we’re sending all our
money to Washington, we send them a trillion dollars, they send us $900 billion back, and they keep the
rest of the money. And I think that’s something that I really
admire about Trump. He is trying to drain the swamp. But boy, is that tough to do. – Okay, so some of the
principles you laid out here strike me as a lotta
common sense stuff, and I definitely fall
in line with that. When you now hear the
ideas of socialism being thrown around as if
this is the right set of ideas or when you listen to say
Bernie or Elizabeth Warren, and the amount of government
involvement they want to use to create their perfect
utopian society, are you shocked that these
ideas gained traction? – I am, I don’t think shocked would be the term I’d
use, I’m distressed. I’m lucky enough to have been
friends with Milton Friedman, who is maybe the
greatest economist for
the last 200 years, at least since Adam Smith,
and he was just a wise man in so many things.
– I was on the front page of the New York Times in
a compilation with him as some of the leaders
of the far right. – Wow.
– That’s how bananas the media is.
– So cool. – So I’m sympathetic to
your wife’s situation. – An amazing guy, and I remember
towards the end of his life which was around the
turn of the century, he died in the early
2000s, he said to me, and it was kind of
in despair, he said, “Steve, what is the
most enduring lesson “of the 20th century?” I think we both agreed, I
think most people would agree, the enduring lesson
of the 20th century is that communism,
socialism, Nazism, Maoism, Bernie Sanders-ism, whatever
you wanna call these things, these government controls of
the economy, they’re a failure. And the free enterprise
system is a success. That’s what everybody
should have learned over the last 100 years. It’s how the United
States of America became the most economically
powerful nation in the world. And then he said, “But
yet the lesson everyone “seems to have learned is
we need more socialism.” (laughing) So it is disturbing, we
have overwhelming evidence– – Do you think that’s
just lazy thinking? What do you think that is? Is it a branding of capitalism that’s wrong.
– Yes. – Have we grown fat
on all of the excesses because it’s so freaking great. – Yes, I think both
of those things. You make two great points. Number one, capitalism,
I don’t really use the term capitalism anymore
because it’s seen as greed and the rich getting richer, so I think we’ve lost that term. I talk about free
enterprise system and let people start businesses, let people do what
they wanna do, let the economy work itself out. The other point you
make is I do think we’ve become fat and happy, and especially the millennials
who, you’ve seen these polls, 52% of college graduates
now think that socialism is superior to free
market capitalism. I mean, how stupid is
that, to believe that? Now part of that is the schools. We’ve done a horrible
job of allowing the left to take over our
government school system, and now we’re paying
a high price for that. We’re turning out
kids who don’t know anything about anything. It’s a big task we have at hand. One other thing,
I don’t even think we should call them socialists. People like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders
are authoritarians. You were saying that you
have Libertarian tendencies and I do, too. I don’t want the government
to tell me what to do. – That’s it. – They do want the government, they want the
government to tell you what kind of straw you can use, what kind of light bulb
you can use in your home, where you have to set
your thermostat at, what kind of car you can drive– What kind of school
you can go to. – What kind of school, I
mean, they want control of everything, and when
I talk to young people, this is my plea, I’m
so glad to do this show ’cause I know you’ve
got a great audience, for young people
watching this show, freedom and liberty are
precious commodities. Most people in the
world don’t have the freedoms and liberties
that you and I have or the people watching the show. Guard those jealously. Millions of Americans
have given up their lives to safeguard those
freedoms and liberties. And now we’ve got a whole
generation of kids who’s willing to just throw those
liberties and freedoms away. It distresses me. – Well, one of the
things that I always find so confusing about it is that
the arguments run so thin. So just in the last
couple of weeks, AOC was giving a speech
about how she didn’t want Mark Zuckerberg to be in
charge of her healthcare. – (laughing) Exactly. – Now I get it, I don’t
really want Mark Zuckerberg to be in charge
of my healthcare. I don’t know exactly
why she was saying that, but it’s like,
well, what she wants is Bernie to be in charge
of your healthcare. And I don’t know, who’s
worse outta those two? – You know who should be in
charge of your healthcare? – You!
– You, exactly. We should all be. This is the danger, I
mean, think about this. The two industries,
I talk about this in every speech I give, what two industries in America are most dominated
by government? – Healthcare and–
– And education. – And education, okay.
– Yeah. These are the two industries we’ve basically turned
over to the government. Look, our healthcare system is 50% private and
50% government. – And now the progressives
don’t want school choice either, which is completely insane.
– Of course. So think about this though,
so you got the two industries that are most run by government, guess which two industries
have had the biggest increase in cost over the last 50 years? Education and healthcare.
– I think I’m with you here. – You don’t have to
be a genius here. So wait a minute, and then
I ask my liberal friends, “Why do we have the government
play such a big role “in education and healthcare?” You know what they say? “To make it more affordable.” Gee, they’re doing a wonderful
job with it, aren’t they? So why not let every kid, you and I have to
start a movement, every child in America,
whether they’re black, brown, whatever color, whatever income
range, wherever they live, it is a disgrace that we’re
sending millions of kids to failing schools. Why not allow every single
American to have the right that Barack Obama had when
he moved to Washington, D.C. and moved into public housing,
right, in the White House? What did he do? He didn’t send his kids
to the public schools. He sent them to elite
private schools. Why can’t we let every single
American have that same right and have the schools
compete for kids? Competition is a
wonderful thing. – Literally just this morning, we’re gonna hold this
video for a couple of days, but I just saw Elizabeth
Warren tweet this morning about how she basically wants
to take out charter schools. – She did?
– Yeah, yeah. – Oh my god, that
is so distressing. – I just retweeted
it this morning. – It’s like they
wanna force people… This gets to the whole idea you and I were
just talking about. Who can make a better
decision about what schools their kids should go to, Elizabeth Warren or the
parents of those kids? Who do you think cares
more about those kids? – To give the
devil his due here, what do you think the root of
what these people think is? So okay, we can
sit here and agree that their ideas
are bad, let’s say, but they obviously
don’t believe that. – I think they have a
trust in government. – They just have a fundamental
trust in something else. – Well, look, I think there’s
a sinister answer to that and then I do think some just
believe government is good, and all we need is just
to spend more money on the public schools. That’s all we’ve been
doing for the last 50 years and they’re getting
worse, not better. So my attitude is just from, I don’t care what your
political philosophy is, if you keep doing
something over and over, and it doesn’t work, you
stop doing it, right? But the other thing is,
let’s be honest about this. Who runs the government schools? The teachers’ unions do. What is the most power… 35% of the delegates in
the Democratic Convention are teachers’ unions’ members. They run the Democratic party. Unfortunately,
too many Democrats put the interest of
the teachers’ unions
ahead of the kids that we have the schools that
are supposed to be served. – All right, we literally
only have five– – No, no, I was just
getting going here! – I know, I know, we only
have five minutes left. – I’m teasing. – ‘Cause you gotta
get to Fox, it’s okay. – Next time I’m in LA, can
I come back on the show? I’d love to keep talking to you. – Yes, you can
absolutely come back and we’ll do it
with no time limit. But in five minutes, this is
gonna be almost impossible, can you give me a
sorta basic breakdown of where we’re at with China? I think this is pretty much the most confusing
thing right now. People have no idea what is
being ramped up right now. – So it’s not just confusing,
this is the issue of our time. I’ve called this the–
– Well, congratulations. I’ve given you five minutes. – Yeah, I know, it’s the
epic battle of our time. Just as from the 1950s
through the late ’80s, it was the Cold War
with the Soviet Union, now we have an epic battle, I think this is the new
Cold War, I really do. I think that this is World War
IV (chuckles) that we’ve got. I mean, China is– – Wait, why’d you
skipped three there? – Pardon me? – Why’d you skip World War III? – Well, I think you
could say the Cold War was sorta World War III.
– Oh, okay. – But in any case, I mean,
I’m exaggerating a little bit, but the point I’m making is, China is becoming increasingly
a menace on the world scene. The march towards freedom,
look, Mao was the single greatest villain maybe who ever
walked on the planet earth. I mean, he killed tens
and tens of millions of his own people. And then finally they
moved away from communism, which we were
talking about before, and they started to
embrace privatization and free enterprise, not fully, but they moved in
that direction. And they had a boom! I mean, one of the great
booms ever in history what happened in China
over the last 30 years. The problem has been,
they’ve moved more in a Stalinistic direction now. So they’re building
up their military, they’re cheating on trade deals, they’ve never opened
up their markets to us. The way I describe
it to Donald Trump, not that he needed any urging
on this, ’cause he got this, we are in an abusive trade
relationship with China. We’ve opened up our
markets to them, they have not opened
up their markets to us. They’re stealing our
intellectual property. I applaud Trump for finally
calling them out on this. It’s about time. Where this is right now,
the ball’s in their court. We have a mini deal right
now, but look, China could… You can’t trust these people
as far as you could spit. I mean, the problem is they
also don’t keep their word. So it’s a tricky situation,
but this is a battle that’s not gonna be resolved
in the next three months or six months or a year or two. It’s probably gonna go
on for a decade or two, and the big issue is, will
the United States or China be the world economic superpower over the next 25 or 30 years? You know who I’m
gonna put my money on? Us.
– I think you’re putting it on the U.S.
– I’m putting it on us. You know why? ‘Cause we still do have
a free enterprise system. They are command and control. They have the Elizabeth
Warren type of economy. It doesn’t work. – So you think ultimately
that sorta thing might work at some level
for some period of time, but ultimately it creates that. – It fails. Show me any time, I would
say to my liberal friends, show me any time, any place, anywhere where that
model has worked? It didn’t work for
the Soviet Union, it hasn’t worked
for North Korea, it didn’t work for Hugo
Chavez in Venezuela, and it didn’t work for Castro. I mean, it’s never
worked anywhere, because the genius of the
free enterprise system is millions of actors
who make decisions. The idea that you can
have a few politicians in a central politburo
that can make the decisions about an economy with millions
and millions of decisions, it’s ludicrous, it
will break down. I’m putting my money
on Silicon Valley and the American–
– They’ve got their own set of problems though because
of how lefty they’ve gone. But that’s a whole other topic that we’ll have to
discuss next time. I think you proved to
me you’re an economist. – Wait, one other big
advantage over China, I always say this
in my speeches, our Chinese are smarter
than their Chinese. (laughing) – I think you proved to me
you’re an economist here because we probably got
the most amount of ideas packed into the shortest
show I’ve ever done. – It’s called
efficiency, my friend. – That is efficiency,
there you go. You guys can follow Steve
@StephenMoore on Twitter, and we will have him back for a full episode soon enough. All right, thanks. If you’re looking
for more honest and thoughtful
conversations about politics instead of nonstop yelling,
check out our politics playlist. And if you wanna
watch full interviews on a variety of topics, watch
our full episode playlist, all right over here. And to get notified
of all future videos, be sure to subscribe and
click the notification bell.

100 Replies to “Who Is The Real Trump? Taxes, Economy & The New Socialism | Stephen Moore | POLITICS | Rubin Report

  1. Destroy through new regulation any cheap energy, then force expensive green energy, outcome prevent a western country and its people from competing in manufacturing globally… Hmmm a China ploy???

  2. you have no idea how many shows I skip by because of the length. this short show was very informative and may cause me to watch some longer ones.

  3. I agree wholeheartedly on hating, "…laws meant to protect me from myself". I don't agree that drug use is a good example. Motorcycle helmets or seat belts for adults are a good example. Yes, you're statistically more likely to live if you're wearing a helmet or seatbelt and get in an accident but who are you hurting if you don't? Only you. The difference between that example and (some) drug use is that people get f*cked up and then get behind the wheel of a 4,000 lb vehicle, or, they get so addicted they can't stay employed and the only way to get their fix is to steal from others. It's not like an addict runs out of money and then says, "Well, I guess I'll have to detox in my bathtub because I'm broke". Some things that appear on face value to affect only the person engaging in them are well known (statistically and from a common sense perspective) to virtually never ONLY affect the person engaging in them.

  4. If the Fake News Media would be fair with him, He would not have to Twitt. I say Twitt away President Trump best Commander in Chief.

  5. The free market works because it is millions of ethical players. I have dealt with Christians Jews, Buddhists, and Sikhs in business relations without trouble. Further Atheists who are inculcated in one of the ethical systems behave equally well( Japanese Atheists or American Atheists for example) . Dealing with the Communists who have no ethical boundaries is unwise.

  6. Costs the government in Oregon about $15k to "educate" each student. My son is attending a private classics high school in Salem for $5k. Enough crony capitalism in education!

  7. It is the demon rats that are committing treason against the people the punishment for treason it death where is we the peoples redress !!!!!!!!!!!

  8. It’s not they trust the government. It’s that they are week and want someone strong to protect them. Much of that due to lack of education.

  9. Stephen is great (you are too Dave)! I didn't know anything about him before this, but came away impressed. I like his demeanor, his enthusiasm (for economics, America, freedom, etc.), and his ability to explain economics in relatable ways. He seems like a truly good dude. I also agree with his and Larry's philosophies on economics – I was overjoyed when I heard Trump hired Larry (and look no further than the current economic state as proof!).

  10. Oh! Wow. Congratulations on ONE MILLION SUBSCRIBERS Mister Rubin!!! Well deserved and hard earned for sure. I've been a sub since around your 10K mark. Keep up the great work.

  11. I am numb after listening to Steve rattle on about the greatness of capitalism, ignoring the incredible harm that occurs, and shitting on the views of his fellow Americans that love their country as much as he does. Don't get me wrong, I'm a capitalist that runs my own business, but I see every day how our system needs some 'socialist' type programs to balance out a system that worries too much about profit. This whole conversation has just been an incestuous self-confirmation of a failed ideal. We "millennials" have had enough of it!!!

  12. Not just "willing to throw those liberties away" but indoctrinated into an ideology that wants to rob, rape and destroy the society and principles that made those liberties possible in the first place.

  13. The fact that Trump nominated Moore to run the Fed is something that could only happen under him. Stephen Moore’s flat tax plan and other ideas like it would largely defund the federal government and super surprisingly the government didn’t like that idea and ran him outta DC

  14. I'm really not loving this little ADD preview clip at the beginning. I'm not here because I need sound bites. Let me experience the interview and decide what's important.

  15. you're in California?! do yourself and everyone a favor and leave there. Both as an example and an economically sound decision.

  16. I'd prefer a sales tax only, sales tax is better since it's a voluntary transaction. And whoever spends more pays more taxes, it's fair.

  17. Trump is an amazing president for having endured the insanity the dumocrates have put him through. He has accomplished so many amazing things for this country and abroad. The pure hatred the Demorats have for him is quite disturbing. They put their meaningless emotional derangement ahead of doing what’s beneficial and right for the USA and it’s citizen. Dumocrates are literally trying to destroy this great country. Since I’ve been alive (57 years), I think Obama was the worst president I’ve endured but I still never had attacking words about him. He seemed like a nice person with a nice family…but the country was extremely weak under his leadership. I didn’t vote for Trump the first time but will do so this time. It’s scary to think people actually vote for Pelosi, Schiff, Waters, Nadler, AOC . These are the worst leaders of all time….an embarrassment

  18. The "government" has no right to take any of our money at all. They never did. They don't have any rights we don't have. The only fair tax is $0.

  19. Minimal wage was never intended to live off of. It was meant for people just getting their first job so that employer didn't have to take a big risk on someone with no proved work ethic or experience. The problem now is the companies taking advantage of it, by having a lot of employees working at minimal wage an working them at just under the amount of hours needed to not have to provide benefits, like health insurance. That is what has to be dealt with.

  20. Only problem with the 7 million unfilled jobs…they are all for minimum wage and no one can afford to live on minimum wage now that the value of our dollar has been halved since 210.

  21. there should be a gov. health insurance you dont have to close.. its just default if you do not have anything better.
    it also only covers the most basics and life threatening things. so if you are in an emergency it covers but also if you are a homeless guy it covers. the clinic directly sends the bill to the goverment. health insurance isnt even checked.
    this incidents are the real danger, they happen unplaned and can ruin you financially.

    but people can also have private insurance with much better luxurary conditions. if they get private insurance the private insurance covers 100% of all costs (the gov. insurance in that case doesnt pay anything). you can get things like chief statt treatment etc.
    the government doesnt regulate anything. the only regulation is that insurance companies cannot kick people out of contract as long as they pay and also insurance companys cannot deny payment.

  22. What people need to relearn, is something that hasn't been taught since before 1913, when they passed the unlawful federal reserve act. And that is, that we are a common law country. That means, for the people, that the government has no authority to expand the laws beyond the harm injury or loss theory. If you cause no one harm injury or loss, and you have no injured party, you have not committed a crime. Anything beyond that is government overreach, or, criminal activities on the part of the government. First and foremost, the people must embrace and hold our common law dear to our hearts. It is what gives the people their power over their servants. 90% of what this program talked about is unlawful activities by our servants. Not one government department is lawful, they all could and should be run by private industry, it is the responsibility of the people. We are so far from what our founders envisioned that we should all be ashamed. To put it in a nutshell, we ARE a common law country, with a Republican form of government. The constitution wasn't written for the people, it was written as a fence around government servants and to remind them how limited their authority is. Democracy, was a detestable thing to the founders, it's nothing more than mob rule. James Madison said, "democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention, have ever been incompatible with rights of property and self protection and have been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths".

  23. Every time I hear someone say Trump should stop tweeting, no matter how good they sound, I get a little suspicious about their ties to the swamp.

  24. How could ANYONE give a thumbs down? Perhaps all Bernie, Elizabeth or AOC supporters? Alway find Steven Moore an interesting speaker.

  25. Never let Marxists teach your kids, especially not with the aid of state.
    The only state teachings that can maintain a nation is:
    Free-choice schools and Nationalist-pro state schools.
    End Marxism

  26. Natural gas (methane) is NOT fossil fuel. It is produced by billions and billions bacteria right inside of ourselves, on the ground, in the soil or deep inside the Earth. Methane is actually renewable energy. Obama and stupid Dems are against renewable energy actually.

  27. The system needs to collapse and be rebuilt properly for it to work. These financial theories are just as stupid as a liberals.

  28. This guy is conservative? Your first $30,000 is tax-free, with a family of 4? I would love to see this guy try to support a family of four with $30,000 a year. He would jump out a window. He obviously has no idea how shit actually works. To live a comfortable life, to be able to afford areliable vehicle, pay the insurance, afford a house payment, and still save money,a single individual needs at least $30,000 a year to do those things, let alone, a family of four. What if that family is a single father and three kids, and no other income? What is that family of 4 is a disabled grandparent and children? That's why a tax system can't be as simple as he proposes. You can't blanket the entire country with one program. That's what liberals want to do, and that's why shit it doesn't work as well as it should. Everyone's income situation is different, and that is why everyone's tax preparations should also be different. That's why it is so hard to agree on a fair taxing system that doesn't become as complex as a Rube Goldberg device.That's why the adjustments need to be made on the government spending end, and not the tax end.

  29. "Tax break" horseshit trying to hijack the revolution.

    You don't need a tax break. Society needs to purge academia, media and law of the runt liars; it needs to fundamentally change the structures and notions (e.g enlightenment 'values') that let academia, media and law be hijacked in the first place.

    And yes it is going to be brutal and ugly.

  30. China never moved toward capitalism; they tricked everyone into thinking they did. We bought it hook, line and sinker because our politicians and big corp leaders could make a quick buck off it. It might be the biggest scam in history.


    YES, I am screaming.

  32. 24:24 Dave asks why do you think people support socialism and not capitalism?

    Isn't it completely obvious at this point that socialists have infiltrated the public education system and for DECADES have promoted this communist agenda that promotes hatred of capitalism, as well as a hatred for white people, specifically hetero men, and even worse if they are "Christian". The answer is simple: remove the SJW's from their positions of power and influence.

  33. If you want to argue that raising the minimum wage would price people out of the market, you are not paying attention to the rest of the world… the USA minimum wage is basically legislated slavery compared with the rest of the world.

  34. It's the same thing here in Ontario where the teachers unions are in bed with the the NDP/the Liberal Party (right now we have a conservative government, thank God!). It's so backwards when you think about it – we really need chartered schools here in Ontario and that would seriously squash the teachers unions and force competition and efficiency in education. So much reform is necessary to change course!

  35. "New Socialism"
    No such thing, it's just like the old one.
    George Carlin was right, political correctness is just left wing fascism dressed up as politeness.

  36. Education? After forty years as a teacher in the public education system, I would suggest that students and their parents would be allowed to elect which teacher(s) they would like to engage. Should a teacher have more than 24 students apply for a particular block, then the teacher would decide which 24 (or less) be allowed to attend their course. This should stimulate teachers and students do their best to warrant their choices., Oh, 24? In my forty years I have noticed that once you add a 25th student in the class, the ability of the teacher to meet the needs of all students becomes compromised. 25-29 students = crowd control, 30+ students = herding cats. A good teacher will even be able to meet the needs of "special" students without intervention from a "special ed" teacher or teaching assistant, as long as they are not overburdened. Adding a teaching assistant to a teacher's load is akin to adding another six or more students to the class. Want to save millions of dollars and time? Abolish the school administered standardized tests/exams. An artificial way to produce winners and losers. How about competency instead? If the student needs to satisfy an employer or college that they are fit for the position, then the employer or college should administer whatever devices it has to determine the fitness of the candidate. Twenty five to twenty nine, your kid is likely not getting the tutelage they need. If your child is enrolled in a class with thirty or more students, you might want to look in the mirror to try and figure out what sort of a parent you really are.

  37. “I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned, but not greed to want to take someone else’s money”
    -Tom Sowell

  38. This guy is a complete idiot. Half the stuff he's talking about has been attributed to Obama, such as wage increases, economic growth and unemployment rate. I'm sure we will see the side effects of a Trump presidency soon as unemployment rates go up and the economy tanks.

    Just to nitpick. Charter Schools are a proven failure. I know people will think or suggest that the alternatives aren't much better and I slightly agree and would suggest the education system worldwide needs a revamp. Only schools that seem to be somewhat useful are those for the kids with "Special needs" where rather than teach standard subjects they teach and provide coping mechanisms to help those children grow into functional adults despite their disabilities.

    Governments should shut down Private and Charter schools, period. We should all receive the same education and not be limited by our wealth or location. Considering Public schools are tax payer funded I would expect or hope that they each receive the appropriate amount of funds needed to provide the best education possible to the students and a good enough wage that the people who are teaching our children are well looked after also. Since this is just being hopeful and clearly not happening, stopping funds to Charter schools would be a great step in the right direction to making this happen.

  39. What does Trump have that protects him?


    He's also Extraverted, I would say he's 99th percentile Extraversion. It's obvious when you see him speak that he genuinely likes people or is at least interested in people and he loves the adoration of a crowd, but I think he likes to fight just as much, maybe even more.

  40. There is "negotiating", and then there is wasting my time. If you want to negotiate a lower price or percentage, then don't think you can start at 50% because you wanted 75%. Most people will walk, including me. You are not some savvy, shrewd business man…..you are an ass.

  41. 7 or 8 dollars an hour why not 3 or 0 why pay people at all? Poverty and homelessness just goes up and up and up for over 45 years, all leaders have failed these people.

  42. The Federal Dept of Education that’s $130,000,000,000.00 dollars from Americans Ed system $70;000,000.00 is then dispersed on the 52 states… and our kids are no smarter having the government funded department

  43. I believe flat tax is good. I don’t agree with this guys proposition of no tax under 30k a year. Think about, its common sense. You can live comfortably with 30k. Therefore its pretty enticing to live comfortably without paying federal taxes. So why would you want put yourself through the uncomfortable pursuit of making more money to basically pay taxes when you were living comfortably with 30k and no taxes??
    If anything, tax those under 30k a bit higher to entice them to move up.

  44. Saying people that believe in leftist economic ideas stupid, is in itself stupid. They could say the same thing for your economic ideas and dismiss them too.

  45. Imagine where we could be as a nation right now if Democrats would just work with the man. We could truly be tackling going to Mars with the economy we have right now.

  46. I thought Trump was a blowhard too… he’s (Trump) won me over- the man speaks my language-
    Note: I’m watching this, not the impeachment hearings.

  47. Things are great now but I keep hearing about the next big recession in late 2020…I wished they would have covered that to see his thoughts

  48. The deepest part of the swamp is the part where huge sums are given to the military industrial complex. Trump has increased spending about 13% above what Obama spent in his final year. Much of the increase went for defense spending. Trumps Secretary of Defense was formerly the biggest defense lobbyist in DC, when he worked for defense contractor Raytheon. Before him Trump had as Secretary of Defense a former president of Boeing, a huge beneficiary of defense spending. In less than 3 years Trump has appointed more former lobbyists as cabinet heads than George W Bush or Obama did in 8 years. The idea that Trump is draining the swamp is absurd. He is the biggest swamp rat in history.

  49. My only reaction to the government not being involved in trying to force people to make good decisions, I am ok with this as long as the person who makes the bad decision has to pay to said decision. For example, if you don't want to wear a seatbelt or a helmet then so be it. You want to eat a diet high in sugar then so be it. But when the consequences of those decisions have a financial impact on you then you bear the cost. OTherwise, your bad decisions have a financial impact on me and my family.

  50. Can anyone tell me the name of this old bald dude in a pink sweater (may have just recovered from cancer I think) Dave interviewed awhile back talking about "progress hierarchies" his only critism of Jordan Peterson was that he talked about Dominance hierarchies but not the progress ones. can't find the video but I want to watch it again. Thanks in adavnce to anyone that can help me!

  51. It goes to show just how evil and all money hungry and power hungry the left are and not only that but what they really think of the American ppl,you have President TRUMP fixing Americas economy after yrs of it been abused and yet the demon rats want to take him out ,and take him out over things they have done.

    I’m a kiwi and and ex leftie and an ex Trump hater.

    I’m so glad I seen the light.
    Trump 2020
    Save the western world from these insane ,nasty,intolerant,nazi,fascist,racists called the democrats and their leftie minions.

  52. Dave rubin I follow about 7 different news sources on a daily basis. I've seen you speak many Times and I can't remember any occurrence where I disagreed with you on major issues. But this interview was genius. I absolutely love the speed at which you guys could speak and deliver information. I'm going to start doing some research on all the different shows that you've ever made. Thank you so much

  53. Why is socialism more attractive to the average person than capitalism? One gives you something for nothing. The other makes you work. People are lazy and entitled because they’ve been given too much. Giving them more will only exacerbate the problem. What we need, unfortunately, is a great conflagration to give people a reason to live and fight for their freedom. There is a reason why the main curse upon man is to have to till the soil for their own lives. It creates purpose. But no one wants to work. We do everything we can to make it possible to sit back and do nothing. So it stands to reason that the average person will demand to force everyone else work on their behalf.

  54. Socialism tells fairy tales, and people love beautiful lies. Like playing the lottery, we know we are most probably not gonna win, but the lure of 'FREE' is too strong for common sense to break through.

  55. Great interview but at 16:08 you start talking about the shale oil revolution??
    Why are we paying$2.50 and up per gallon??
    When Bill Clinton was in office gasoline was $.99 a gallon, Bush comes into office and the price of gasoline is $1.25 and going up???
    My question is if we are in a shale revolution why are we paying SUCH high prices for gasoline??
    If we are paying what we should be paying a $1.50 then everyone has more money to put into our economy??
    Why have we allowed Exxon/Mobil to run our country??
    Trump 2020. GOD bless you all!!

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