Morning Joe Panel Debates Ben Shapiro And Free Speech On Campuses | Morning Joe | MSNBC


>>THASTUMPED ME.>>YOU DIDN’T WATCH LAVERNE AND SHIRLEY?>>OF COURSE.>>WE WILL TALK ABOUT THIS. QUICKLY, THIS IS A POTPOURRI. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE INDIANS NEXT. IT LOOKS LIKE THE BERKELEY POLICE FROM EVERYTHING I’VE SEEN DID A FANTASTIC JOB. THEY DIDN’T BOW DOWN TO VIOLENCE. THEY DIDN’T, I KNOW IN ONE EVENT. THEY TURNED OVER A PARK TO SOME VIOLENT AGITATORS. APPARENTLY, THEY DID A GREAT JOB LAST NIGHT. SO CONSERVATIVES AT BERKLEY COULD ACTUALLY HEAR A CONSERVATIVE SPEAKER WITHOUT HAVING WINDOWS SMASHED IN.>>YEAH, THE CITY LOOKED LIKE IT WAS ON LOCK DOWN. THERE WERE SOME DIVIDERS HIM PEOPLE BOARDED UP THEIR WINDOWS. IT WAS IN A CITY PARALYZED BY BEN SHAPIRO, WHO IS A VERIFIES GUY. HE’S FOUGHT REALLY A BOMB THROWER. HE WEARS A YAMAKA. AND HE’S BEING ATTACKED BY PEOPLE AS A WHITE SUPREME CYST. HE WAS AMONG THE PEOPLE WORN FIRST AND POST-VICIOUSLY ATTACKED BY WHITE SUPREMACISTS WHO SEEMED FOR ACTIVATED.>>THE ANTI-DIFFERENTPATION — AIN’T DEFAMATION LEAGUE, SAYS HE WAS THE MOST ATTACKED JOURNALIST BECAUSE HE IS A JEW. THESE CLOWNS IN BERKELEY SAYS HE’S A NAZI. ONE PERSON LAST FIGHT SAID, HEY, WE SHOULD DO EXACTLY WHAT PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE DONE WHEN HITLER WAS RISING. ONE PERSON TWEETED BACK, YOU ARE, YOU ARE HARASSING A JEW AND COMMITTING VIOLENCE BECAUSE A JEW WANTS TO TALK. CONGRATULATIONS, YOU ARE DOING WHAT HITLER DID.>>I GOT EIGHT LOT, A LOT LESS THAN BEN DID. BUT WE RECEIVED A TAX ON CARTOON IMAGES OF JEWS BEING SHOT IN THE HEAD. PEOPLE PHOTO SHOPPING YOUR FACE IN A GAS CHAMBER. TO HAVE THAT BACK AT YOU AS FEWER RO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, WE WILL SUPPRESS YOUR RIGHT TO SPEAK.>>THERE IS A TERM USED AS A CATCH-ALL FOR SOMEBODY I DISAGREE W. BEN SHAPIRO AS YOU SAID, HE PARTED WAYS WITH DONALD TRUMP. HE LEFT BREITBART. HE DID ALL THOSE THINGS, HE HAS BEEN ATTACKED RELEAPTLESSLY, HE SAYS INFLAMMATORIORY THINGS, HE DOES, BUT THE IDEA THAT SHE’S A WHITE SUPREMACIST CHEAPENS, BECAUSE THERE ARE WHITE SUPREMACISTS IN OUR MITTS. THERE ARE PEOPLE WE NEED TO BE FOCUSED ON. YOU THROW THAT TERM OUT AND MAKE AN UMBRELLA TERM. IT’S NOT GOOD FOR THE SOCIETY. YOU KNOW CHEAPEN THE TERM TO THE EXTENT, WE DON’T KNOW WHO IS A WHITE SUPREMACIST.>>ALL RIGHT. WHY DON’T WE GO TO THE NEWS NOW IN EDDIE’S GOT IT. HOLD ON NOW.>>I JUST THINK WE NEED THE NUANCE TO CONVERSATION. I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT BEN SHAPIRO AS AN EXAMPLE OF A PARTICULAR KIND OF CONSERVATIVE VOICE THAT’S BEING INVITED TO COLLEGE CAMPUSES, THAT IN SOME WAYS TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE NORMS OF OPENNESS.>>WHAT DO YOU MEAN?>>WHAT I MEAN IS THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE YOU INVITE INTO YOUR SPACE WHO HOLD POSITIONS THAT CALL INTO QUESTION THE VERY NORMS THAT ALLOW THE SPACE TO EXIST.>>LIKE WHAT EXAMPLES?>>WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THIS. I AM TALKING GENERALLY ABOUT CERTAIN SPEAKERS. I WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT THOUSANDS OF CONSERVATIVE INTELLECTTUALS SPEAK ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES ACROSS THE COUNTRY EVERY DAY. THESE SORTS OF EVENTS HAPPEN AROUND PARTICULAR SOURCES. SO WHAT I MEAN BY THIS? WHAT IS IN SPAP RO’S HEAD THAT SHOULD CAUSE VIOLENCE.>>I’M MAKING A GENERAL CLAIM. I KNOW WE GOT TO GET TO THE NEWS IS THIS.>>NO, WE DON’T.>>PART OF THE PEOPLE — PART OF WHAT I’M TRYING TO SUGGEST HERE IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A CONSERVATIVE SPEAKER OR A PARTICULAR KIND OF SPEAKER MAKES THE CLAIM THAT CERTAIN PEOPLE DON’T BELONG IN THIS INTELLECTUAL SPACE THAT WE’VE SACRIFICED THE NORMS OR LET ME SAY WE’VE SACRIFICED OUR ADMISSIONS CRITERIA, THERE ARE A PARTICULAR GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ADMITTED TO OUR CAMPUS. I’VE SEEN THIS ON PRINCETOP’S CAMPUS, WHEN SOMEONE CAME IN TO MAKE A VERY, VERY VOLATILE ARGUMENT I THOUGHT AROUND AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND THE STUDENTS PROTESTED. NOW, IT’S CERTAINLY CONSISTENT WITH THE NORMS OF THE UNIVERSITY TO ALLOW FOR OPEN DIALOGUE, EXCHANGE. BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEONE TAKES ADVANTAGE OF THOSE NORMS TO CALL INTO QUESTION THE VERY WAYS IN WHICH THAT COMMITTEE IS CONS STUTD.>>IS THAT A PROPOSITION THAT MERITS VIOLENCE?>>OF COURSE NOT.>>WHAT’S YOUR POINT?>>MY POINT IS THIS EVERY INSTITUTION HAS TO GRAPPLE WITH THE CHALLENGE OF ITS VALUES WHEN IT’S VALUES ARE BEING TAKEN ADVANTAGE TO CALL THAT INSTITUTION INTO QUESTION. LET ME BE MORE CONCRETE. SO WHEN THE UNIVERSITY ALLOWS FOR OPEN AND FREE INQUIRY AND THEN PEOPLE COME IN AND THEN MAKE ARGUMENTS THAT CHALLENGE THE VERY PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THAT COMMUNITY.>>BUT YOU CAN’T BE DELICATE ABOUT THE ARGUMENTS THAT ARE BEING PAID.>>BUT THERE IS PRECISELY THE CASE. SO WHAT I GET — WHAT I’M FACED WITH AN ARGUMENT, THAT I SOMEHOW AM A BENEFICIARY OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, WHICH I AM, BY THE WAY. BY VERY CHEW OF THAT FACT, I SHOULDN’T BE THERE AND I CHALLENGE THE PERSON IN A VERY DIRECT WAY. RIGHT? AND THEN THAT BECOMES THE BASIS FOR, I’M LOSING MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT HERE, THAT BECOMES THE BASIS, WELL,IANWAY SFWR DO YOU THINK IT’S PRODUCTIVE FOR PEOPLE TO INTERRUPT A CONSERVATIVE SPEAKER TO WALK UP ON THE STRATEGY TO BLOCK HIS ABILITY TO GIVE ANSWER TO THE POINT WHERE THAT PERSON HAS TO BE LET OUT BY SECURITY?>>NO, BUT IN SOME INSTANCES, I THINK THERE ARE MOMENTS WHERE I DON’T FEEL IT NECESSARY FOR ME TO HAVE TO ENDURE ARGUMENT THAT QUESTIONS MY PRESENCE TO UNIVERSITY.>>HERE’S WHAT I BELIEVE IS THE FLAW IN THAT THINKING. I THINK IT’S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS MADE LIBERALS LESS ABLE TO DEFEND THEIR ARGUMENTS IN THE ROUGH AND TUMBLE OF POLITICS IS THAT IF, LET’S SAY YOU TAKE PRO-LIFE.>>OKAY.>>IF I’M IN A LAW SCHOOL AND I SA I TO MY CLASS, THAT I’M PRO-LIFE. RIGHT? THAT’S A POSITION THAT ABOUT 50% OF AMERICANS IF YOU BELIEVE GALLUP SUPPORT. I WILL BE BOOED. I WILL BE HARASSED. PEOPLE WILL SAY, I DON’T WANT TO SUPPORT WOMEN’S RIGHT TO CHOOSE, THAT I’M THIS, THAT I’M THAT. THAT YOU NEED TO GO BACK TO THE CAVE, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. I’M SAYING THIS, VINCE SHAPIRO WAS SAYING THIS LAST NIGHT. THIS COMES TO MIND. IF YOU GET UP AND SAY YOU WERE PRO CHOICE, YOU WERE APPLAUDED, YOU WERE CLEARED, YOU DON’T FACE ANY OF THE ABUSE THAT I HAVE FACED, NOW, IF THAT IS YOUR EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE FOR 18 YEARS AND THEN FOR FOUR YEARS AND UNDERGRD AND THREE YEARS IN LAW SCHOOL, BUT I KNOW, WHICH I DID KNOW THAT EVERY TIME I OPENED MY MOUTH IN CERTAIN QUARTERS, I WAS GOING TO GET MY HEAD KNOCKED OFF, WHICH ONE OF US DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO BE MORE PREPARED TO TELL PEOPLE WHY I AM PRO-LIFE OR WHY I BELIEVE THAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT MEANS WHAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT MEANS OR WHY WE NEED TO REFORM AND SAVE SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE. BECAUSE EVERY TIME IN MY EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE I GET MY HEAD KNOCKED OFF, I WOULD ARGUE, THAT IF THERE IS A STUDENT OF PRINCETON OFFENDED BY SOMEONE COMING IN SAYING, THE WORST THING THAT’S EVER HAPPENED TO AMERICA WAS AFFIRMATIVE ACTION. AND EDDIE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A RECIPIENT OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, HE SHOULDN’T BE WHERE HE IS BECAUSE OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.>>THAT IS THE FIRST PERSON YOU WANT TO ARGUE, THEY WILL HEAR IT. IF THEY’RE RESPECTFUL AND IF THEY LISTEN, IT WILL GET THEIR MINDS WORKING. THEY’LL HEAR THE BEST ARGUMENTS. I ALWAYS WANT TO HEAR THE OTHER SIDE’S BEST ARGUMENT. SO I’M PREPARED.>>BUT THIS IS THE POINT. IN UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES, STUDENTS ARE CONFRONTED OR CONFRONTING OR EXPOSED TO A WIDE RANGE OF IDEOLOGICAL POSITIONS EVERY SINGLE DAY.>>RIGHT.>>THERE ARE PARTICULAR ISSUES THAT ARE VEXING.>>LIKE WHAT.>>LEAK TO THE ENVIRONMENT. AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.>>WHO GETS TO DECIDE WHO THOSE ARE?>>WHAT THOSE ISSUES TYPICALLY REVOLVE AROUND. THEY HAVE REVOLVED AROUND IT SINCE MAJOR UNIVERSITIES HAVE BEEN INTEGRATED, SINCE BRACK AND BROWN PEOPLE ENTERED THOSE SCHOOLS AND WOMEN ENTERED THESE SCHOOLS, TYPICALLY THIS DEBATE OCCURS AROUND ISSUES THAT REVOLVE AROUND ISSUES THAT CONCERN BLACK FOLK, THAT INVOLVE ISSUES AROUND ISSUES THAT INVOLVE WOMEN, AROUND THE CULTURAL ISSUES AND THEY’RE CALLED INTO QUESTION THE VERY –>>CONFRONT IT.>>WE DO. I DO IT EVERY DAY IN MY CLASSES, PART OF WHAT I’M TRYING TO SAY IS THIS DOESN’T HAPPEN RIGHT WITH THE CONSERVATIVE INTERPRETER OF AR AS TO THELE OR THE — ARISTOTLE OR THE BREITBART FOLKS THAT WANT TO USE THE VALUE OF THE UNIVERSITY TO PUT FORWARD NOXIOUS DUNES.>>THAT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IS THE DEBATE AROUND THAT, IT’S SOMETHING THAT’S UNIVERSAL AND EXCLUSIVE TO THE FRINGE O. REPUBLICAN PARTY? BECAUSE IT’S A MISREADING OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. THERE IS A REAL DEBATE. TO DISENGAGE FROM IT IS TO SAY IT DOESN’T EXIST.>>AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IN THE CONTEXT — SORRY.>>I WANT TO GO TO CATTY KAY AND GO BACK TO EDDIE. WE’VE DONE ABSOLUTELY NO NEWS, I HAVE GOT TO SAY, I AM MORE PROUD OF THIS SEGMENT THAN ANY SEGMENT WE’VE EVER DONE.>>Reporter: EDDIE, I WILL TAKE OBJECTION TO WHAT YOU SAID. IT WILL BE THE ONLY TIME THERE ARE OBJECTIONS ON PEOPLE ON CAMPUS FOR WHEN THEY WERE GENUINELY WERE NEO-NAZIS, ALT RIGHT, ANTESUBMITIC. OR WOMEN. LOOK AT 2014 WHEN CONDOLEEZA RICE AND CHRISTINE LE GUARD HAD TO WITHDRAW THEMSELVES FROM GIVING SPEECHES AT RUTGERS AND SMITH UNIVERSITIES BECAUSE ONE WORKED IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND BECAUSE ONE WAS THE HEAD OF THE INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND. THAT’S HOW FAR IT’S GONE ON AMERICAN CAMPUSES. IT’S NOT JUST WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN BERKELEY. IT STARTS WHEN PEOPLE LIKE THAT FEEL THEY CAN’T GO AND SPEAK BECAUSE THERE IS SOMEHOW AN OBJECTION FROM THEM BECAUSE THEY COME FROM A MORE CONSERVATIVE, ECONOMIC OR POLITICAL POSITION.>>WELL, OBVIOUSLY, I WOULD TAKE ISSUE WITH NOT ALLOWING CONDOLEEZA RICE AND OTHERS TO –>>Reporter: THAT’S WHAT HAPPENED.>>BUT I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT THESE ARE ISOLATED MOMENTS. THEY’RE NOT GENERALIZABLE TO COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY. I THINK IT’S THE CASE THAT, AND PARTICULARLY, AND PARTICULARLY POWERFUL AND CONTROVERSIAL MOMENTS LIKE THE IRAQ WAR, ISSUES AROUND IMF IN TERMS OF ITS POLICIES VIS-A-VIS THE DEVELOPING WORLD. IT CAN GENERATE PASSIONS AND THOSE PASSIONS A EVIDENCE –>>Reporter: IT’S NOT EVEN A STORY. IMAGINE IF THAT CAN HAPPEN THEN WITH THESE TWO INDIVIDUALS, IT IS NO SURPRISE THAT WE’RE SEE WHACK WE ARE SEEING ON UNIVERSITIES. I THINK IT’S A REAL SUGGESTION IT’S AN INTOLERANCE LEVEL ON AMERICAN CAMPUSES.>>EDDIE, IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOMEBODY PURELY SPEWING HATRED, NAZIS STAND UP, EQUAL RIGHTS VERSUS A CONSERVATIVE UNPOPULAR VIEW? BY THE WAY, WE CAN HAVE A FIVE-HOUR DEBATE ABOUT ATIRMTIVE ACTION. VERY INTELLIGENT PEOPLE CAN MAKE AN ARGUMENT AGAINST IT. I’M CERTAINLY NOT ONE OF THOSE, BUT THEY CAN. OTHER THAN YOUR ABSOLUTE BLACK AND WHITE, NO PUN INTENDED, HATE SPEWING. JOE I THINK BRINGS UP, I HATE TO SAY THIS, A REALLY SMART POINT IN THAT, THAT ITSELF WAY YOU TALK, WE’RE GOING TO GRAB YOUNG LIBERALS WHO CAN’T HEAR THE OTHER SIDE, WE’RE GOING TO HAVE VERY UNAFFECTED LIBERALS GOING FORWARD.>>THIS IS THE POINT I’M TRYING TO MAKE. I’M NOT MAKING IT VERY ARTICULATELY. THIS IS VERY UNSETTLING FOR ME, IT’S EARLY IN THE MORNING. I THINK THIS IS AN ONGOING CARICATURE OF UNIVERSITIES –>>OH, IT’S NOT.>>YES, I THINK SO.>>IT’S CONSERVATIVE, OH, C’MON.>>I THINK SO.>>I THINK STEVEN MILLERS LIKE YOU.>>CONSERVATIVE FOR A WEEK OVER THE PAST 40 YEARS IN AMERICAN UNIVERSITIES. OH MY GOD.>>JOE, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT’S HAPPENED TO COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES SINCE THE 1980s, IF YOU LOOK AT THE WAYS IN WHICH THE UNIVERSITIES HAVE BEEN OVER DETERMINED BY ADMINISTRATIONS, THAT HAVE GROWN EXPONENTIALLY. WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHO RUNS DEPARTMENTS, WHEN ARE YOU INSIDE FACULTY MEETINGS. WHEN YOU SEE HOW THE CULTURE –>>WHAT CAN YOU FIND? I GUARANTEE YOU, YOU DO NOT FIND REPUBLICANS. C’MON. I GOT TO TELL YOU, I WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA, ONE OF THE MOST CONSERVATIVE STATES IN AMERICA. I COULDN’T NAME ONE PROFESSOR — AND I LOVED ALL MY PROFESSORS, LOVED THEM. I REALLY DID. IT WAS AN INCREDIBLE FOUR YEARS. I LEARNED SO MUCH. EVEN THOUGH IT MAY NOT SHOW ON TV EVERY MORNING, I COULDN’T NAME ONE CONSERVATIVE PROFESSOR OVER FOUR YEARS THAT TAUGHT ME IN POLITICAL SCIENCE AND HISTORY AND ENGLISH. THEY JUST WEREN’T THERE. I WENT ON TO LAW SCHOOL. I WOULD STAKE, CATTILY, ESTABLISHED LAW AND PEOPLE WOULD SHUFFLE THEIR FEET AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA IN CON-WALL CLASS. I WOULD ANSWER A QUESTION FROM A PROFESSOR THAT 80% OF AMERICANS WOULD AGREE WITH, AND THAT 80% OF COURSE WOULD AGREE WITH AND PEOPLE WOULD SHUFFLE THEIR FEET. IT DIDN’T HAPPEN A LOT.>>THE PROFESSOR?>>NO THE STUDENTS IN CLASS. IF I WERE A PROFESSOR, I WOULD TAKE THEIR HEADS OFF. BUT AGAIN, I WAS FINE. I TURNED AROUND MOST OF THE TIME. I’D LAUGH AT THEM SAY, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? BUT I’M SAYING THIS NOT FOR CONSERVATIVES. I’M SAYING THIS FOR LIBERALS. THEY HAVE BEEN BUBBLE WRAPPED AND ACADEMIA FOR 40 YEARS AND THEN THEY WONDER WHY THEY WAKE UP. SEE GEORGE W. BUSH HAS WON TWO ELECTIONS AND SEE DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, THEY GET DESTROYED IN 2016 AND IF 2017, THEY STILL DON’T HAVE A MESSAGE TO TACK TO AMERICA. THERE’S A REASON WHY, AND CATTY, I BLAME AMERICAN COLLEGES.>>Reporter: YOU KNOW, AGREE, IF WE THINK OUR STUDENTS ARE TOO FARAJ I’M THEY CAN’T EVEN HEAR FROM THE LIKES OF CHRISTINE LE GUARD AND CONDI RICE, THEN WE HAVE A REAL PROBLEM IN AMERICAN EDUCATION. WE’RE NOT PREPARING THEM FOR ACTIVE DEBATE IN THE REAL WORLD.>>VE HAVE A BREAK. EVERYBODY, CAN WE GET EDDIE SOME COFFEE? BECAUSE HE’S REALLY FRUSTRATED? HE’S SAYING IT’S NOT FAIR WE STARTED THIS DEBATE AT 6:00 A.M. IT’S UNNATURAL.>>IT IS.>>IT REALLY IS.>>YOU SHOULD HAVE TAKEN SAM KENNYSON’S COURSE. YOU WOULD HAVE HAD A CONSERVATIVE TEACHER.>>EXAMINE, THAT WAS GOOD. WE ACTUALLY HAVE NEWS WE HAVE TO GET TO. MOUNTING TENSIONS, NORTH KOREA FIRES A BALLISTIC MISSILE PROMPTING EMERGENCY ALERTS IN JAPAN. NEW DETAILS PRESIDENT TRUMP BERATED JEFF SESSIONS IN FRONT OF TOP OFFICIALS AFTER THE APPOINTMENT OF A SPECIAL

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